There are bands that come and go, and then there are groups that both critics and fans talk about long after final notes have been played. Though Enslaved - established in 1991 in Haugesund, Norway - is still very much in its prime, it is indeed a collective that will enter the whispered halls of reverence once it’s no longer active (which, hopefully, isn’t for a long time). In a move than runs counter to pre-established moors, the progressive black metal collective is releasing some of its most sonically adventurous and morose records more than 15 years into its bold and daring career: that’s certainly the hallmark of musicians that are intent on creating art for art’s sake. From the amazingly inspiring black-prog amalgamation known as Mardraum to its latest foray into even more progressive zones with 2006’s Ruun, Enslaved is creating music that is worthwhile and notable in scope, allowing the listener to examine, re-examine and then elaborate thusly in the sort of symbiotic relationships that only the great bands have with their fanbase. That, and Enslaved makes ideal use of the world’s most poignant and affecting instrument, the heavenly mellotron… but I digress. Enslaved guitar player and co-founder Ivar Bjornson chatted with BW&BK; before the group’s headlining set at Montreal’s Club Soda on a crisp November day, the perfect sort of weather for Enslaved’s brand of aural reflection.

BW&BK;: Enslaved is on tour in North America again. How does it feel to be playing North America regularly now?

Ivar Bjornson: “It’s a pretty good feeling. It’s kind of special doing two tours within the same year, but we considered our history of touring North America and we’ve had a growing following here especially this decade. At the same time, we didn’t really get to tour much here. We did the occasional festival appearance and some one-off shows, but the tour we did in January (2007) was the first full tour for a full-length in North America since ’95. So we felt that both the band and the audience were hungry for a little bit more and we decided to come back in the same year to do a follow-up. I don’t think we’ll be seeing too much of us doing the twice a year thing in the future, but it felt right to do it now.”

BW&BK;: Are the North American audiences what you were expecting for the second round of touring?

IB: “It’s getting better and better. Where we are now is far better than what we expected when we came over in January. And it’s a completely different thing than it was back in ’95. It’s a lot more varied here than touring in Europe or Norway. You’ve got the Canadian dates that are big and the big US dates like New York, L.A., and San Francisco, but to be able to do a full North American tour you have to be able to do a lot of smaller shows. That can be challenging, of course. But it’s really healthy for the band. It’s a reminder of how much work it is to come to places you’ve never been to before, smaller places like Allentown (Pennsylvania) and stuff like that. It’s like being a new band and that’s very healthy – when you get slapped in the face, you just straighten your back and try harder.”

BW&BK;: The first time I saw Enslaved was in December, 2001. What are your thoughts on that tour, some six years later?

IB: “It was a good tour, but we couldn’t come over with all the production we would have liked to bring along. We didn’t have our crew with us back then. It was a good thing to come and remind people of Enslaved. At the same time, we definitely felt the need to come back to North America and have a tour of our own afterwards. It was a good time and it was a very good package, but it was a sort of strange package (note: the other bands on the bill were Scar Culture, Diabolic, Electric Wizard and Macabre).”

BW&BK;: Yeah, I remember thinking how bizarre that lineup was (laughs).

IB: “It was very bizarre (laughs). But I enjoyed it a lot. We’re still occasionally in touch with the Macabre guys. That tour was a good time.”

BW&BK;: What are the goals for Enslaved at this point? What is there still to accomplish?

IB: “We just want to expand the sound and we want to see where we can take it on a musical level. That’s always our top priority, to create music we feel we’re missing in our own CD collections. We’ve felt that was since day one. Every thing else is just a bonus. For the last three or four years we’ve really grown as a live band and we’re seeing the rewards from that, but our main goal is always to improve, improve, improve. We don’t know where it’s going to take us, we don’t know whether it’ll take us to a bigger audience or if things will stay as they are or if things will decrease. We don’t know, but we’ll always stay true to the musical focus and that seems to be the right thing to do. We’re slow climbers and we’re content with that.”

BW&BK;: On record, where can Enslaved expand to? Some now even view Enslaved as a prog-rock band; where does Enslaved go from here?

IB: “Being in this industry - if you call it an industry - for 16 years teaches you quite a few things on an idealistic level. It shows you that you can come very far with talent and hard work. You see bands going from nowhere to the big time just from being really talented. On the other hand, you also learn the lesson that it also requires a lot of luck, dedication and support from labels, booking agents, the press and all that stuff. I think we seem to be opening one door at a time. But the thing I’ve noticed over the last few years is that every time we approach a new market, so to speak, it seems to be working. It seems to be resonating with the person who genuinely enjoys music; that kind of person seems to be getting into it. Even this tour we’ve had people coming out to see Arsis, and even those death metal people seem to be getting into it. We just go with the flow and present it to whoever wants to hear it. For the next album especially I’m very curious to see what the label wants to do and how they want to angle it and market it. There’s definitely potential within the whole progressive scene.”

BW&BK;: Has the label had challenges marketing Enslaved? The band isn’t quite as black metal as it used to be and you’re continually heading in new directions.

IB: “I think that’s a big part of the reason we split up with Osmose after (2003’s) Below The Lights. We had a very honest discussion with them, and they didn’t want to change their label focus. Their focus was always towards the more extreme black and death metal and so on. We felt that was too limited a scope, and that’s why we went with Tabu Records in Norway. They had no particular strategy, they just wanted to present the band to whoever would be interested. I think it was a good choice. We had to start all over again, but we wanted to keep expanding.”

BW&BK;: To what do you attribute moving away from black metal and moving into this more progressive sphere?

IB: “We’ve been very lucky in doing our thing. We definitely did come from a black metal background, but we were never a real black metal band ourselves. We never had that Satanic or occult imagery, and we didn’t have the corpsepaint. During the years, some bands seemed to have cornered themselves a bit with that sort of thing, they’ve gotten very far with the imagery and then they want to get out of it. The moment we started experimenting with those progressive elements, we felt a kinship and we also felt that that scene embraced it. But it’s not like we’re going around looking for new environments and trying to be accepted. It’s more like we’re trying to present it and then seeing if people get into it.”

BW&BK;: Many view (2000’s) Mardraum as the album that divides the two Enslaved eras. What are your thoughts on that record?

IB: “I think it was the turning point for Enslaved, definitely. It sort of ends that era and then begins the later era Enslaved. I’m very happy that album took some new steps in the more melodic and progressive sounds, but at the same time it kept that raw edge. It wouldn’t have been the same album if we had taken the progression too far. We still kept that background, that historical extreme metal touch to it. It’s an album for us, but it’s also a statement or decision point; we decided that we needed to go with that. We decided that we needed to give it a try. We were actually talking about all this when it came out; we were trying to prepare ourselves for being scolded. We thought there was going to be a backlash. We were sitting there waiting to be excommunicated from the scene (laughs). And that didn’t happen. Even the blackest of the black came back and said it was fucking fantastic, and I think that album came at the right point. It was a bit early, because I think that whole prog-influenced extreme metal didn’t start to really hit until a few years later with Opeth and all those guys, but I think it came at a good time because black and extreme metal was cornering itself. You had the necro style thing that’s still going, and then there was the symphonic sound that sort of had already reached its limits with Emperor. It’s the curse and blessing of genius bands like Emperor: they use it all up for the rest of us when they put out their work. And I think we came around and offered a third way, a sort of necro symphonic thing. I guess you can call it an eclectic third way where it’s all about going into the historical music mould and chopping whatever but mixing whatever, as long as you keep the focus. And that’s sort of weird because we’ve always felt that if someone said we had betrayed the roots, we’d have an answer ready. But people started coming with the opposite, that people appreciated us keeping the roots within this experimental sphere. It’s been one positive surprise since Mardraum (laughs).”

BW&BK;: Maybe people felt that your style was a little more real, a little less bombastic than some other bands.

IB: “Maybe. I think they recognized the authentic need in the band to expand and explore.”

BW&BK;: Were there any bands that you listened to and guided you while you were expanding, or was it more of a personal evolution?

IB: “In that era we listened a lot to the ‘70s, but that was an era where we really didn’t pay attention to the scene overall. I think we went all the way back to the early ‘70s, and that’s when I started to really study things like King Crimson and Yes, and I sort of discovered some sort of link with those bands and extreme metal. At this point, we realized we didn’t have to be afraid of being perceived as pompous or be afraid that people knew that we took music very seriously. But, at the same time, we didn’t want to be self-righteous. It also showed courage to make mistakes. The whole spirit of the ‘70s was promoting music that would surprise people. In today’s music, everything is about recognition. When they try to sell an album, they say buy this because it will remind you of your high school years or remind you of your first girlfriend or whatever. The attitude today is that everything’s been done. Things are promoted in a way that says the safer the better. Right at that moment we became attracted to the whole ‘70s scene, where the music dared the listener. The music said: ‘If you buy this, we promise you you’ll be shocked.’ And that was a big inspiration. Also, in parallel, we went back a decade and looked at what happened in Norway with the second wave of black metal, bands like Darkthrone and Mayhem and Immortal and all those guys and even ourselves, and we realized that the scene was almost like a protest against original black metal. In original black metal like Venom and Celtic Frost, there’s simplicity – the one string guitar is the ideal. And then Mayhem came along using many guitar chords and they played sweeping landscapes. And they were using recording techniques that recalled the ‘70s. I remember (murdered Mayhem guitarist) Euronymous telling us how he was using fretless bass beneath all the bass parts, so there’d be a really low frequency. Fretless bass adds an extra flow to the sound picture. I guess fretless bass isn’t exactly what Venom and those guys were like (laughs). A lot of these young bands, and the revivalists in the scene, were saying that change was bad and that everything should sound like October, ’91. We realised that that was the opposite of the spirit of the scene, because what they did in October, ’91 was like heresy towards their ideals. We needed to do the same. So I think we’re a mix of the black metal scene in its birth and also the progressive, fuck-it-let’s-be-pompous ‘70s scene. Those are the two things that really inspired us in doing what we did.”

BW&BK;: You mentioned Euronymous and the second wave of black metal in Norway. What are your thoughts, now as an adult, looking back on the church burnings and the murders and everything that happened during that time?

IB: “There are so many things to be said. We were sort of both inside and outside at that moment. I think history will show that we slid outside that whole almost political environment - I don’t know if that was a conscious thing or if we got lucky. When we talk about the musical background of Enslaved, we keep coming back to Euronymous and his development of guitar styles. I think that’s an integral part of early black metal that tends to be forgotten. There was an aura or an atmosphere of extreme creative energy going on there at his workshops. People would go around visiting each other, and when I met Euronymous I would always have questions: you had heard a rough mix from (Mayhem’s classic and influential) De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas, and you’d ask, ‘How did you do that song?’ Then he’d sit down and show it on the guitar and I’d pick it up and show it to my friends in my town and that sort of thing would encourage other bands. The other thing going on was a non-musical thing that we are very lucky to have just been on the outskirts of. We knew everybody involved, but we stayed outside of it. Of course, the murders were personal tragedies. But the church fires, as a statement… these days, more and more often people try to sneak the word ‘terrorism’ into it, and I think that’s very wrong. A terrorist would make sure there were a lot of people inside whatever he’s blowing up, but these guys spent a lot of time making sure there weren’t any people inside. I think that’s a huge difference. I think what happened with the churches was a very bold statement. Some people call it infantile, but why wouldn’t a group of angry, young artists make a statement like that? They didn’t ask for all these churches to be placed around the way they were. Everything about that scene and those days has at least two sides to it. It’s almost like nuclear particles - every time you try to turn to look at the other side and you try to turn it all around, there will be something complete. But I think it did something. Maybe in an hundred years if try to trace it, they’ll see a change of thought. It made people in Norway more aware, I think.”

BW&BK;: Do you mean that Norwegians, as a result of the church burnings, were made more aware of their pre-Christian roots?

IB: “I think that happened with very few people. Most people just got scared. Where I grew up, just walking for 20 minutes in any direction would take you by at least ten religious buildings. And you would also know at the same time that there were so many problems within the communities, whether it was abuse or drugs or alcohol or whatever. And none of those problems were ever addressed; they spent more time keeping the churches shiny and nice. I think the church burnings took religion up to an everyday level, instead of accepting it as something that had always been there. These bogeymen came out and burned churches and brought it to the present.”

BW&BK;: Were you shocked when you found out Euronymous had been murdered?

IB: “Both yes and no. Everything going on at the time was escalating madness. You would hear rumours and no matter how much you tried to retreat from the eye of the storm, so to speak, you would hear rumours of threats going back and forth. The Norwegian newspapers didn’t exactly help, either. They got in there and interviewed not only the people involved, but if you were a lonely schizo you could call up the newspaper and tell them you slept in coffins and listened to black metal and they’d give you three full pages. That whole environment made you feel unsafe because it was escalating and escalating. I think on some subconscious level everybody was prepared for an ending like that. It was an inflating balloon. Extreme disappointment at what happened is more the description than shock, I think.”

BW&BK;: So you were just really disappointed that it actually had reached the levels everyone was threatening to bring it to?

IB: “Yeah.”

BW&BK;: Back to Enslaved’s music, the last few minutes of ‘Neogenesis’, from (2004’s) Isa, come together to create an incredible passage, with a lot of emotion surrounding that piece of music. What was the inspiration for that passage of the song? I’ve always told people I want that part played at my funeral when I die (laughs).

IB: “Hopefully that won’t be for a long time (laughs).”

BW&BK;: Yeah, I hope so (laughs).

IB: “If I’m going to be completely honest, that part of the song has a childish motivation behind it. I wanted to make something that could make me feel something along the lines of what I felt when I listened through Dark Side Of The Moon, specifically the chord progressions. I didn’t have any musical references, I just worked until I had a passage I felt would take the song from… when the song is building stress all the way, it’s about deconstruction and the loss of values in the search for becoming more conscious. In that search, you lose a lot because you find all these conceptions and pre-conceptions in your thoughts that, at least in my case, that I thought would be my own. I thought they were, more or less, absolute truths, but when challenged they turned out to be stuff that I read (laughs) and stuff I took for granted and stuff I believed. It’s easy to have certain conceptions, and it’s about floating around in that nightly landscape where you set your own ideals on fire and you try to navigate towards something like a new birth for it. And then you sort of have sympathy for yourself at the same time as you discover there’s so much that’s phoney going on in modern man’s head. All that is in the lyrics and the song escalates and we needed an end that could what ‘Us And Them’ from Dark Side Of The Moon does, how it just calms you and shows you something musically beautiful. I wrote the track and I gave it to Arve (Isdal), our leader guitar player. He’s the person who understands David Gilmour Pink Floyd the best, of all the people I’ve met. He’s a really good lead guitarist. So I told him about this motivation and asked him if he could make the lead for it. When I heard the lead the first time… that was a situation where it’s appropriate to use the word ‘shock’ (laughs). It was just insane. It was like building half a house in secret and asking him to build the other half. And then we put it together and both parts just became fantastic when they were glued together. There was no discussion surrounding all this, there was just some description of the emotion around all of it. I think I owe him big time for that for the rest of my life (laughs).”